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    :-)<br>
    <br>
    Yes, you are absolutely correct, the installer does assume you are
    running an entire VM just for ZendTo.<br>
    <br>
    That's part of the beauty of having VMs where before we only had
    physical servers, where you could either use the whole server or
    none of it.<br>
    <br>
    A vast proportion of particularly small companies couldn't justify
    the cost of an entire server just to run ZendTo: most ZendTo servers
    spend most of their life idle, that's just the nature of the service
    ZendTo provides.<br>
    <br>
    But they can very cheaply spin up a VM (or merely a container) just
    to run ZendTo.<br>
    <br>
    So no longer do sysadmins have to cope with multiple web
    applications running simultaneously in the same filesystem with
    conflicting setups, different version requirements and so on. You
    can have 1 VM (or just 1 container) for each web application. No
    more conflicts between applications, each runs separately and so the
    ongoing support costs are a fraction of the total amount they were
    with multiple apps on the same host.<br>
    <br>
    I've been a professional Unix (and Windows and Mac) sysadmin since
    1995. We wouldn't be able to operate now, the way we used to when
    the only option was running multiple apps directly on the same
    physical iron.<br>
    <br>
    Also, I switched away from providing a VM image "virtual appliance"
    for ZendTo to the Installer I provide now, because most large
    organisations now have pre-configured "template" VM images which
    contain their favourite Linux set up how they want it, with things
    like centralised logging, authentication, monitoring and so on
    already set up. It is far easier to run the Installer on top of a
    clone of the template, than it is to shoe-horn the centralised
    configs into an OS installation you had no control over.<br>
    <br>
    I hope that helps explain why I've gone the route I have.<br>
    If you want to install it all manually, feel free. But take a look
    at the complexity of the Installer and work out exactly how sure you
    are that you won't miss something.<br>
    <br>
    P.S. The email sending is now done using PHPMailer, it doesn't
    usually use any underlying MTA at all (unless you forget to
    configure it in preferences.php, at which point it has no option).
    If you don't use PHPMailer, you don't get HTML email messages from
    ZendTo, only plain text ones. The old code that relies on the
    underlying MTA is simply there for the benefit of people who upgrade
    badly and so may be running with an ancient preferences.php that
    doesn't contain the PHPMailer settings. I don't intend anyone to
    *choose* to use the old code, which is partly why it only does plain
    text emails and not pretty HTML ones.<br>
    <br>
    Cheers,<br>
    Jules.<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/07/2018 02:30, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bbrendon@gmail.com">bbrendon@gmail.com</a>
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:WM!260392391c397c20ec01ff826804aef7ce8d8fbb6c8a542a9b9e091c200b7e5ef737d19b35f7206622eae61c792b9597fa51cdc77dc8aa78a42c02283e3d3219!@mx.jul.es">
      <div dir="ltr">You are right. Line out the "
        <span
style="font-size:12.8px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">I
          think you are crazy.<span> " part.</span></span></div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Richard
          H. Burns <span dir="ltr"><<a
              href="mailto:burnsr@william.jewell.edu" target="_blank"
              moz-do-not-send="true">burnsr@william.jewell.edu</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="auto">
              I respect people having different opinions but disparaging
              comments about someone who is providing the software free
              seems to be a bridge too far. If you don’t like the
              software or the way it works please don’t ruin it for the
              rest of us. I applaud Jules work and his always pleasant
              attitude.
              <div><br>
                <div>Speaking for myself, I most certainly do run a
                  single VM for Zendto. I plan on keeping it that way. </div>
                <div><br>
                  <div id="m_-4259420866901917066AppleMailSignature">
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span
                        style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><b>Richard
                          Burns</b></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><b><i
                          style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Server
                          and Systems Administrator</i></b></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span
                        style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Office <a
                          href="tel:816.415.7633" dir="ltr"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">816.415.7633</a></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span
                        style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">William
                        Jewell College | <a
                          href="http://www.jewell.edu/" dir="ltr"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.jewell.edu</a></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><img
                        moz-do-not-send="true"></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><br>
                    </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div class="h5">
                      <div><br>
                        On Jul 2, 2018, at 5:28 PM, bbrendon--- via
                        ZendTo <<a href="mailto:zendto@zend.to"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">zendto@zend.to</a>>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div>
                          <div dir="ltr">I think you are crazy. That
                            installer basically assumes you're running
                            an entire VM just for zendto. I would vote
                            the installer works like other LAMP apps.
                            This script is like big brother.
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>1. apache - no thanks</div>
                            <div>2. mod_php. no thanks</div>
                            <div>3. ufw. no thanks</div>
                            <div>4. postfix. I like exim thanks.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>I understand you're trying to make it
                              easy, but you're also making it harder for
                              people like me.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                            <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 2, 2018
                              at 1:17 AM, Jules Field <span dir="ltr">
                                <<a href="mailto:Jules@zend.to"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jules@zend.to</a>></span>
                              wrote:<br>
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                                #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">BB,<br>
                                  <br>
                                  To upgrade to 5.10, *please* use the
                                  ZendTo installer. This will upgrade
                                  your system pretty safely (grab your
                                  PHP settings first though, as it can't
                                  always avoid rewriting them from
                                  scratch), and install all the things
                                  you actually need.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  It pauses a lot along the way, and
                                  tells you what it's about to do, so
                                  you can always pause it while you go
                                  and check something out, before
                                  letting it continue.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  Cheers,<br>
                                  Jules.
                                  <div>
                                    <div
                                      class="m_-4259420866901917066h5"><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div
                                        class="m_-4259420866901917066m_-7138211077531357058moz-cite-prefix">On
                                        01/07/2018 21:04, bbrendon---
                                        via ZendTo wrote:<br>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                    <div>
                                      <div
                                        class="m_-4259420866901917066h5">
                                        <div dir="ltr">Previously I was
                                          running 4.12 and didn't have
                                          any issues.
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>I've updated to 5.10 and
                                            now I get errors about
                                            libsodium not being
                                            installed or enabled. I
                                            verified it was enabled but
                                            still get errors. For the
                                            moment I disabled encryption
                                            in the app as I don't need
                                            new features.</div>
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>I realize you don't test
                                            or run with phpfpm but just
                                            mentioning this in case you
                                            ever go there.</div>
                                          <div>-BB</div>
                                        </div>
                                        <br>
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                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
ZendTo mailing list
<a class="m_-4259420866901917066m_-7138211077531357058moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ZendTo@zend.to" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ZendTo@zend.to</a>
<a class="m_-4259420866901917066m_-7138211077531357058moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://jul.es/mailman/listinfo/zendto" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://jul.es/mailman/listinfo<wbr>/zendto</a><span class="m_-4259420866901917066HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></pre>
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                                      <pre class="m_-4259420866901917066m_-7138211077531357058moz-signature" cols="72">Jules

-- 
Julian Field MEng CEng CITP MBCS MIEEE MACM

How to stop time: kiss.
How to travel in time: read.
How to escape time: music.
How to feel time: write.
How to release time: breathe.

<a class="m_-4259420866901917066m_-7138211077531357058moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.Zend.To" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.Zend.To</a>
Twitter: @JulesFM
PGP footprint: EE81 D763 3DB0 0BFD E1DC 7222 11F6 5947 1415 B654
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                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br>
                          <span>ZendTo mailing list</span><br>
                          <span><a href="mailto:ZendTo@zend.to"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ZendTo@zend.to</a></span><br>
                          <span><a
                              href="http://jul.es/mailman/listinfo/zendto"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://jul.es/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/zendto</a></span><br>
                        </div>
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    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Jules

-- 
Julian Field MEng CEng CITP MBCS MIEEE MACM

'When I read Shakespeare I am struck with wonder
 That such trivial people should muse and thunder
 In such lovely language.' - D.H. Lawrence

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.Zend.To">www.Zend.To</a>
Twitter: @JulesFM
PGP footprint: EE81 D763 3DB0 0BFD E1DC 7222 11F6 5947 1415 B654
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